Knox also said that if he had wanted “to trouble your estate because you are a woman, I might have chosen a time more convenient for that purpose than I can do now, when your own presence is in the realm.”  He had, in fact, chosen the convenient time in his letter to Cecil, already quoted (July 19, 1559), but he had not succeeded in his plan.  He said that nobody could prove that the question of discarding Mary, on the ground of her sex, “was at any time moved in public or in secret.”  Nobody could prove it, for nobody could publish his letter to Cecil.  Probably he had this in his mind.  He did not say that the thing had not happened, only that “he was assured that neither Protestant nor papist shall be able to prove that any such question was at any time moved, either in public or in secret.” {197}

He denied that he had caused sedition in England, nor do we know what Mary meant by this charge.  His appeals, from abroad, to a Phinehas or Jehu had not been answered.  As to magic, he always preached against the practice.

Mary then said that Knox persuaded the people to use religion not allowed by their princes.  He justified himself by biblical precedents, to which she replied that Daniel and Abraham did not resort to the sword.  They had not the chance, he answered, adding that subjects might resist a prince who exceeded his bounds, as sons may confine a maniac father.

The Queen was long silent, and then said, “I perceive my subjects shall obey you and not me.”  Knox said that all should be subject unto God and His Church; and Mary frankly replied, “I will defend the Church of Rome, for I think that it is the true Church of God.”  She could not defend it!  Knox answered with his wonted urbanity, that the Church of Rome was a harlot, addicted to “all kinds of fornication.”

He was so accustomed to this sort of rhetoric that he did not deem it out of place on this occasion.  His admirers, familiar with his style, forget its necessary effect on “a young princess unpersuaded,” as Lethington put it.  Mary said that her conscience was otherwise minded, but Knox knew that all consciences of “man or angel” were wrong which did not agree with his own.  The Queen had to confess that in argument as to the unscriptural character of the Mass, he was “owre sair” for her.  He said that he wished she would “hear the matter reasoned to the end.”  She may have desired that very thing:  “Ye may get that sooner than ye believe,” she said; but Knox expressed his disbelief that he would ever get it.  Papists would never argue except when “they were both judge and party.”  Knox himself never answered Ninian Winzet, who, while printing his polemic, was sought for by the police of the period, and just managed to escape.

There was, however, a champion who, on November 19, challenged Knox and the other preachers to a discussion, either orally or by interchange of letters.  This was Mary’s own chaplain, Rene Benoit.  Mary probably knew that he was about to offer to meet “the most learned John Knox and other most erudite men, called ministers”; it is thus that Rene addresses them in his “Epistle” of November 19.