“I don’t know that there is any great difference; but the word ‘union’ seems to me to imply greater permanence.”

“You think, then, that the United States must exist always?”

“I think that our fathers believed that they were acting for all time—­so far as they could,” said I; “but, of course, there were differences, even among the framers of the constitution.”

“Suppose that at some time a State or several States should believe that their interests were being destroyed and that injustice was being done.”

“The several branches of government should prevent that,” said I.

“But suppose they knew that all the branches of the government were united in perpetrating this injustice.”

“Then I do not know what such States ought to do,” said I.

“Suppose Congress was against them; that the majority in Congress had been elected by their opponents; that the President and the judges were all against them.”

“The will of the majority should rule,” said I.

“Even in cases where not only life and liberty but honour itself must be given up or defended?”

“Then I don’t know what they ought to do,” I repeated.

“Ought they to endure tamely?”

“No; but what their recourse would be I cannot justly see; it seems that the constitution should have provided some remedy.”

“You believe in the right to revolt against tyranny?”

“Yes.”

“Well, suppose your State and other States, her neighbours, should conclude that there was no remedy against injustice except in withdrawing from the partnership, or union.”

“I should say that would be a very serious step to take, perhaps a dangerous step, perhaps a wrong step,” said I.  “But I am no judge of such things.  It seems to me that my mind is almost blank concerning politics.”

“Yes?  Well, suppose, however, that your State should take that step, in the hope that she would be allowed to withdraw in peace; would her citizens be bound by her action?”

“Of course.  South Carolina, you say, has withdrawn; that being the case, every citizen of the State is bound by her act, as long as he remains a citizen.”

“South Carolina has withdrawn, but her hope for a peaceable withdrawal is met by United States armies trying to force her back into the Union.  Under these circumstances, what is the duty of a citizen of South Carolina?”

“I should say that so long as he remains a citizen of the State, he must obey the State.  He must obey the State, or get out of it.”

“And if he gets out of it, must he join the armies that are invading his State and killing his neighbours and kinsmen?”

“I think no man would do that.”

“But every one who leaves his State goes over to the enemies of his State, at least in a measure, for he deprives his State of his help, and influences others to do as he has done.  Do you think that South Carolina should allow any of her citizens to leave her in this crisis?”