“There’s room for both, and need for both,” said that earnest young man.  “Each has its work to do—­the State University will probably help in attracting most of those who want special technical equipment, and the church colleges will keep on serving those who want an education for its own sake, whatever special line they may take up afterward:  though each will say it welcomes both sorts of students.”

This suited Joe; he intended Marty to keep it up a while.  So he said, “But why is a church college, anyway?” And he got his answer, for Marty too was eager for the fray.

“The church college,” he retorted with the merest hint of asperity, “is at the bottom of all that people call higher education.  The church was founding colleges and supporting them before the State thought even of primary schools.  Look at Oxford and Cambridge—­church colleges.  Look at Harvard and Yale and Princeton and the smaller New England colleges—­church colleges.  Look at Syracuse and Wesleyan and Northwestern and Chicago.  Look at Vanderbilt, and most of the other great schools of the South.  They are church colleges, founded, most of them, before the first State University, and many before there was any public high school.  The church college showed the way.  If it had never done anything else, it has some rights as the pioneer of higher learning.”

J.W. had been getting more interested.  He had never heard Marty in quite this strain, and he was proud of him.

“That’s a pretty good answer he’s given you, Joe,” he said with a chuckle.  “Now, isn’t it?”

“It is,” admitted Joe.  “I reckon I knew most of what you say, Marty, but I hadn’t thought of it that way before.  Now I want to ask another question, only don’t think I’m doing it for meanness; I’ve got a reason.  And my question is this:  granting all that the church schools have done, is it worth all they cost to keep them up now; in our time, I mean?”

“I think it is,” Marty answered, quieter now.  “They do provide a different sort of educational opportunity, as I said.  Then, they are producing most of the recruits that the churches need for their work.  Since the churches began to care for their members in the State Universities, a rather larger number of candidates for Christian service are coming out of the universities, but until the last year or two nearly all came, and the very large majority still comes, and probably for years will come, from the church colleges.  And there’s another reason that you State advocates ought to remember.  Our Methodist colleges in this country have about fifty thousand students.  If these colleges were to be put out of business, ten of the very greatest State Universities would have to be duplicated, dollar for dollar, at public expense, to take care of the Methodist students alone.  When you think of all the other denominations, you would need to duplicate all the State Universities now in existence if you purposed to do the work the church colleges are now doing.  And if you couldn’t get the money, or if the students didn’t take to the change, the country would be short just that many thousand college-trained men and women.  The whole Methodist Church, with the other churches, is doing a piece of unselfish national service that costs up into the hundreds of millions, and where’s any other big money that’s better spent?”