Toscan: What about Endgame, in which you played Clov?

[MacGowran]: Endgame presented different problems [from Waiting for Godot]. The world upon which Clov looked, through the window, was a world devoid of anything, any human living being. So perhaps this could be taken as a futuristic play, an example of genocidal factors, of races that have been killed off. The world upon which Clov looks is more a moon-scape than an earthly vision. That's why Endgame is the harshest of the plays and the most tragic. There's less laughter to be found in Endgame than any other play—except for little moments like when Clov discovers he's got a flea or the dummy dog with the leg and sex missing.

The reason Clov doesn't leave at the end is because Hamm puts a doubt into his mind whether he does see life outside or not. If he did...